problems. not going to happen. all right. larry has to come back every week. that is all the "money" we have for you today. by the book. save your receipt. send it to me. i will reimburse you. i'm just going for the new york times list. gerri: hello. i'm gerri willis. will business and labor leaders pixar nation's fiscal cliff problem? our land back congress. these groups heading to washington this week to discuss possible solutions with president obama. days after the congressional budget office reports there is another threat of recession. lawmakers in washington have just 49 days to strike aeal that would prevent more than $600 billion in tax increases and automatic spending cuts. in addition the president has been reelected. obamacare, the president's controversial health care law one of the fully implemented. ceos all across the country are coming out warning of the law's impact on their business.

as a result, threatening massive layoffs. joining me now, former commerce secretary under president george of the bush. great to have you on the show, sir. let's start with this meeting the president is calling with union leaders, business leaders. what can they do that congress cannot? >> well, the problem is that they can't do much because the brush of taxes and the rise of regulations that are being thrown at businesses, the only thing they can do is defend themselves from them, but i don't think they can reach in a gram with labor to say that we are not going to a reduced the size of our workforce even though we are not trying to make profits because of obamacare. everyone is criticizing apple bees, but we forget that the purpose of business is to make a profit. gerri: and just to make a point here, apple bees, the apple bees in new york has said that they

are not going to expand into new restaurants, not going to add people to staff because of obamacare. >> and you know what, that is just the beginning. gerri: worse things are happening. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, there is one provision in obamacare where, if people work less than 30 hours they don't have to get health insurance and the company. we are going to see a load of part-time jobs. i mean, the unintended consequences are such that i don't think we can see the malt. gerri: well, and less talk about. you said that business and unions cannot fix this problem. obviously they're not running congress to voting on a budget, voting on how to change spending in this country. but you say that the gop has more leverage than many people think. how so? >> well, i think that, you know, last term i think the president was being very tactical and was

looking forward to his second term to be reelected. he has been reelected. now he is thinking about his place in history, and i don't think he can afford a legacy whereby he did nothing to avoid another recession, this fiscal clef, a credit downgrade. i mean, this is going to be a disaster for the country. so i think he has to get something done. he has to compromise. apparently, you know, between the speaker and the president, there have been statements that reflect a sense of compromise. gerri: well, it reflects a sense of compromise. i'm not sure that is reality. i think some of the statements have been misread. one statement that i have seen from senate democrats saying that we need to drive over the fiscal glove because that is the only way we're going to eventually get anything done. on the other hand, people say we will lose 2 million jobs in history to our session. to his right?

>> well, if we let these tax cuts -- if we increase taxes and let these tax cuts -- the tax cuts expire, we are in deep trouble. we are going straight into a recession and, you know, you add that to the expense cuts, that would be, you know, a pretty easy bet. the problem is going to be that we need the republicans need to sit -- stick to their guns on this idea of no rate increases and let's focus on revenues. gerri: right. >> ultimately what we need is revenues, not great increases. here's the thing, the obamacare, the republicans have already given up rate increases. there is a almost 4 percent tax increase starting january 1, 2013 on interest income. so if i pay 35 percent

income-tax i am going to now pay an additional 38% interest income. if we let the bush tax cuts expire if that means that people will be paying over 42 and a half% on interest income. gerri: that means the stock market will plummet like a stone over the coming months. it has already started doing that. do you see broader implications for the stock market and economy? >> yes. the small-business start-ups are down. they will continue to be down. we have fewer ipos now than we had ten years ago. companies just don't want to be public because of all of the regulations. venture capital is down. there is less investment in new businesses. gerri: whose fault is that?

whose fault is that? >> i think the fault is directly on the government because they have added a tremendous amount of insecurity. what we are talking about with obamacare, as of 2014, a barrage of provisions, taxes. i mean, what they are saying is that they are declaring war on business. this idea that what apple bees is doing is wrong is unbelievable. they have to make a profit. if they can make a profit, they have to reduce their employment. gerri: you say that will happen with a lot of businesses across the country, presumably there are lots of ways to get -- more than one way to find a solution. what do you think would work at this point to get these two sides together to find some kind of common ground and get the problem solved? >> we aren't trying to do the 4 trillion reduction that the president was talking about at the beginning. taxes are designed to bring in about $39 trillion in ten years,

but we actually bring in about 36 trillion. so $3 trillion of deductions to work with. we won't get 3 trillion, but we can get a good chunk. i think we will probably end up with something around the order of $1 trillion, which is a good step forward. it says the right message, but it is so much. we have so much more to do. our deficit is about the same size as the% of gdp is greece. gerri: i know. we are facing problems, that is for short. i appreciate your coming on tonight. >> always a pleasure. gerri: thank you, secretary perry to have you want. thank you so much. meanwhile, congress returned to work tomorrow after their month-long break. can they work together to up work and the fiscal cliff. with more, always great to have you. the speaker at a conference call this week with republicans saying get in line because we're going to have to find some

common ground. do you think that will work? >> the problem republicans have, they have the leaders looking at that and saying, we will have to give some on revenue and hopefully as the former secretary was discussing, hold the line on rates. there was that little potential tea leaf in the president's statement the other day where he did not mention higher rates. so it's possible you could have a compromise around closing loopholes, closing deductions to my getting more revenue. gerri: is that more likely? that is interesting is that can happen. >> if they're is a deal that will be it. gerri: and what would you place the odds of having a deal had? >> i'm not betting on anything else ever again. [laughter] gerri: what is interesting, a lot of things are now on the table. just this weekend bill kristol, the republican london, had this to say about how they could find common ground. >> you know what, it won't kill

the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires. it really won't. gerri: the president has said raise taxes on people who aren't $250,000 or more, something very different. the think the republicans are sponsoring on this topic? >> first of all, you have had some democrats saying, actually, let's set it at a million rather than going down to 200. gerri: because he is in new york city were a lot of people make 250,000. >> you are not rich. you don't feel rich. and the irony is, you listen to joe biden and barack obama talk about it, and it sounds like they're only taxing millionaires and billionaires because their the only people they ever invoke, but what bill was talking about is more a zesty debate within the right about the sort of things without the debate being shut down automatically at. now, if he's talking about raising rates on millionaires, i think that really is bad for the tax system. as we were discussing earlier, the parameters of the deal, you will probably get more revenues and will come from the top.

gerri: revenues don't come from taxing the wealthy. you don't get enough revenue to make a difference to the deficit or debt. i want to talk to you about patty murray in the senate he said, was distraught over the fiscal cliff. >> we can to accept an unfair deal that tells all of this on the middle-class and tells them they have to support it. we have to make sure that the wealthiest americans pay their fair share. if the republicans will not agree with that, we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expired and we will start over next year gerri: and she likes that idea. let's just drive over the fiscal cliff. is that an option? >> it is an option, both politically and economically it will be a mistake because the president learned from the debt shut down. there is a big car full of congress and no deal and it's all poisonous, he is heard as well as congress. he has to be aware of that. and just the economic effects.

we have seen some of the effects of the uncertainty now. just imagine going into january with these rates going up. the democrats and the president would try to blame republicans, but it's tricky when you have democrats out there frontally, like the senator saying, this is a big part of our leverage and it would not be such a bad thing if it happened. gerri: i just can't imagine anybody would want to take responsibility for the loss of 2 million jobs and another recession. we may already be in recession, and that is one factor that nobody is talking about. we may be driving right into the teeth of a recession and raising taxes at the same time, which could be a very big problem for this economy. >> i would prefer not to raise taxes at all, and i think the president's argument from a year or two ago when he backed off from raising the bush rates, you don't want to do it in a fragile economy. that still applies. gerri: a long way to go. where do you think the republican party needs to it be different of the next four years? >> that is a big question, and i don't have the answer. my initial reaction is mitt

romney lost the argument over the economy, at least he did not when it. democrats are successful in the populist attack on him. i would like the party to focus on sort of the bread-and-butter economics to hit the middle of the country where they live. i think romney did not have that agenda, and republicans have not had that agenda, and it bears some thinking about what that agenda would be. gerri: the kitchen table. food on the table and gas in the tank. >> obama had the right rhetoric. the middle class and take home pay, but i'm not sure there were the signature policies to back those words up. gerri: a long way to go and stuff to get through before that happens. it will be interesting to see. thank you for coming on. always great to see you. now we want to know what you think. here is our question. sinn millionaires pay higher taxes? logitech gerriwillis.com, on the right-hand side of the screen and also the results of the end of the show. >> coming up on "the willis report," obamacare is here to stay after surviving the

election. how will it impact the health plan you sign up for this open enrollment season? what you need to know next. a fall from grace for the now former head of the cia david patraeus. taking a new twist. k. t. mcfarland is here with the unbelievable details. and just like in hurricanes past, sandy left behind many set up an sand filled cars. the deputy automotive editor for consumer enforcement is here with what you should let go for the next time you buy a car. we are on the case next on "the willis report." ♪

♪ gerri: if you have not already heard from your employer about open enrollment, well, brace yourself. premiums are high, and rising. according to a survey from the national business group on health, employers expect their

health-insurance costs to increase 7%. 60 percent of those employers, more than half, plan to ask workers to pay higher monthly premiums. case in point and walmart stores. the arkansas based retailer and nation's largest employer will ask employees to pay premiums that are 8%-36% higher next year for. the company has said if your average cost of the more than 1 million employees were covered all workers' contributions we will rise just 4%. according to a survey, nationally premier shall rise 9% on average. the walmart workers are getting off easy. walmart says for its part it is trying to cope with rising medical costs which make up a huge chunk of the retailer cost. the company has gone so far as announcing the opening of six health centers where it will offer free hard and spine surgery to most employees. even so, most employees are restricted to drop coverage because of the higher cost. wal-mart's most popular

associate on the medical plan we will cost $17.40 for two weeks. that's up $2 in 2012. average plan costs across the country and all businesses is $79 per month. seen as a blueprint for other employers who were trying to manage their cost and preparing to meet the requirements of obamacare. health care reform was supposed to keep costs low and quality of care the same or better. >> if you like your health care plan you'll be a will to keep it . gerri: increasingly it is to the industry is changing dramatically. what is more, the unintended consequences are not good. obamacare was supposed to ensure everyone got covered about keeping costs low, but as you saw, already employees are saying it will drop out of the company plans, many more people we will burden emergency rooms. as i said,,costs are not

declining. they're rising. you have to admire walmart for being so creative and evenhanded. the brass are offered the same health plan as warehouse workers in cincinnati. the story espouses a obamacare for what it is, a plan without a vision for doing what is needed. obamacare may be the law of the land, but it should be overturned. when we come back, now that obamacare is here to stay, what is next with a massive loss? frank, instead of scratching your way to retirement,

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♪ gerri: obamacare, taxes, and regulations coming to you soon. here with the manhattan institute, a senior fellow. thank you for coming on. we appreciated. i want to talk about what people can expect coming up on the horizon in the short term because this all rolls out over several years. what taxes, for example, will people face in the new year? >> in 2013, todd teefourteen is a big bulk of the taxes. 2013, we will start to see the investment tax and a tax on dividend income. gerri: that will have a big impact. >> that is why the stock market has reacted. the cost of capital will be significantly higher, but in 2014 you will start to see their real bulk, the 1 trillion in taxes, the bulk of that will be in 2014, the spending will start to kick in as well. so 2014 is the big year. gerri: we start to see it.

we have seen a little bit all along. we saw keeping your kids and your insurance policy for longer, all that kind of stuff that people really like it happened earlier, but now we're getting to the nitty gritty. now it's the taxes. even now, people don't like the law. if you look at exit polling on obamacare from the election just last week, the majority of people want obamacare either repeal or rollback. the question is, of course, the president won the election. had you do that? >> there is not a way to repeal a law, even if romney had one, republicans lost two seats in the senate. there's only so much you can do if you have control of congress. you can do some things, but not much. there is very limited the amount that you can do. would you can is use the law as, perhaps, an outlet for reforming entitlements. that is one thing that obamacare, that may be the legacy. this huge competition for resources.

the big health care entitlements. republicans will have some say as to how that plays out. gerri: what you're saying is, it sounds like what you're saying is some of the money could be diverted some morales. >> the irony of a lot of this health care politics is that democrats criticize paul ryan for the premium support plan for medicare reform. the obamacare exchanges which apply to people who are a low-middle income also is a premium support plan. so democrats have an argument against applying the obamacare racing just medicare? and mean, they like obamacare. what would be so terrible about migrating seniors into the obamacare exchange as a way to reform medicare using a democratic approach. gerri: you're turning the law and set a little bit there. interesting florida, for example , medicare and medicaid. very important. 27 percent of doctors are not accepting medicare patients right now. is that going to get better or worse? >> is going to get worse because the cost pressure and spending pressures of medicare, the

politicians have cheated. when not going to reform the program to make it more efficient. eulogist pay doctors and hospitals less to cover this impatience. at a certain point doctors quit and house bills go broke. the medicare actuary says that 15 percent of all hospitals will go broke by the end of the decade because of these cuts. 30 percent by 2030. austral's according the program. gerri: that is why the entire industry is restructuring. martin, trying to come together. doctors tell me they don't think they can hang out their own shingle anymore because it will be so expensive to be a single practitioner. >> that's true. what is happening, that is driving of the cost of health care because the reason may sign a prosperous is hospitals can charge higher prices. gerri: something that i thought was very interesting in telling. obamacare will be the last entitlement that this country will ever put forward. how can you be so short? >> you can never be sure, of course. we are broke. it would be pretty impressive to see a massive expansion again.

health care is really the last major building block of the welfare state. once you have that. gerri: you have everything. and, of course, as is so obvious, once you pass a major entitlement because never comes down. all right. thanks for coming on tonight. it's a pleasure to see you. but have you on set. >> my pleasure. gerri: coming up, the fiscal cliff is not the only thing on the president's plate. i looked at foreign-policy. helping our heroes work on this veterans day. we look at the most military friendly employers and what they're doing to help. stay with us.

♪ gerri: president bama's focus has been here at home, but what about abroad? we will another four years of

president obama foreign policy policy look like? let's ask k.t. mcfarland. we have been focused like a laser that tax problems to hit the country but it is for a policy that is being ignored. >> when the economy is bad people don't care about foreign policy is hard to get excited about the middle east with no job in the u.s.. the big loser is israel. the president has already said he is stepping away. will the united states help them stop by iran? they will do with them as some point*. gerri: how do you do with a country like that? >> it will divide it to the point* to have nuclear weapons just once grew turn

away then we would recognize to normalize relations. as a result either all those countries start to accommodate and let them be the dominant power to control the pershing goal for they get their own nuclear weapons. gerri: any winners or losers? >> but what is coming our way is the veterans. reset after vietnam we would never do that again but people come home everybody forgets about the bets kravis serious commitment to them that we're already cutting the mental-health benefits. gerri: now because of the fiscal cliff. >> is easier to cut the guys that cannot strike rather than government workers.

gerri: especially on veterans day. the president made false responding to foreign leaders at san tm a voicemail that said congratulations. look at who the president responded to. it is telling. what does that tell you? we have the enemies centric foreign policy. we have a couple of middle east countries. nothing and africa then there robocalls calls to asian countries. gerri: when people think nobody is looking. >> he also did not call afghanistan and buy-back. we have pled for those countries and those to will be a lost war and we will walk away a.

that is our the administration is going. gerri: talk about petraeus. this was heartbreaking four u.s. >> he is a friend. i was in afghanistan right after paula left. gerri: general petraeus head of the cia and the woman whitey -- writing biography he is incredibly well-respected. >> the most honored military leader in a generation. gerri: he resigned? >> he had to. but we're still talking about the 12. general petraeus does know what happened. we need to have intensified we need an explanation. gerri: what would you expect ? >> when fox news and broke

the story cia was told to stand down they issued a statement from petraeus period now said no one at a time denied assistance to the cia. if that is the case, then who did? somebody did. gerri: we have to hear him talk about it. there will be a hearing later this week cement now he is not testifying. the deputy is now speaking but i think they will get him to testify voluntarily or he will be subpoenaed. gerri: they give recommend on today. this weekend is a time to pause and remember the sacrifices men and women make for us every day and how difficult life is when they return.

post 9/11 veterans unemployment is a percent much higher than 10%. but some employers don't made holliday. the most military friendly employers according to g.i. jobs but the number five. burlington northern santa fe. since 2005 they have hired more than 5,000 veterans. number four popozao and hamilton. one-fourth of the employees are veterans. "mugged" delight. the consulting firm of first guidance to returning heroes. number two actively seeking out with a military background 1/6 employees of serve or are a reservist from csx. number one, the company that

recently started to combat the claims initiative to became insurance claims adjuster is -- adjusters. 12% of usaa are veterans. while some say we have to dive over the fiscal clef what is the main with the impact of superstorm sandy? especially when buying and selling damaged cars. what to look for. next. ♪

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gerri: superstorm sandy hit two weeks ago and the recovery at a snail's pace. more than 70,000 customers still without electricity. why is the government entity chosen by the legislatures saying it is as a result of factors beyond its control. there was severe electrical damage. that would make sense if they did not face similar criticism from last year another example of the

private sector doing things better. one official says governor cuomo plans to request $30 billion of federal disaster aid used to cover cost of commuter rail lines and bridges and subways to help rebuild homes and make loans to local businesses. a new power grid and a christmas tree and a horse and a new car. the list went on and on. [laughter] why not world peace and leprechauns? apparently he needs to get a dose of reality. but they will end the gas rationing as 6:00 a.m.. gas supplies are back to normal and the lines are drawn. but michael blumberg said he is not sure when he will end

it in new york he suspects it will stay emplace for a while. and used car prices could go up 3% according to a new report price hikes will be sharp with luxury cars. mini buyers may not be aware their purchasing one of these cars. joining me now, jeff, this is a problem after a big storm not just dealership cars but the ones on the secondary market. have you know the car has been damaged? >> the buyers will have to be extra careful and it comes down to a careful inspection. there are things a consumer to look for but to make sure

it is looked at with an independent mechanic. >> if you see muddy carpet's walk away look for some things that are more subtle like the seat mounting screws? >> if the car has been cleaned it will look good at a glance but it shows a flood damage in the details. the seat 19 screws should look perfect but they were like the removed so look for aside the screwdriver has scratched the paint. also the headlights if deepwater water will seek bid and we a water line. gerri: also the engine? >> if you pop the hood you

can often find an indication of dirt or a water lied at the back of the engine. gerri: rest on the screwheads under the dashboard to. >> right. the insider not typically exposed. just like under the negative. gerri: is there a lot to protect me? >> there are. they're not perfect for insurance companies, a junkyards', when a car has been some difficulty damaged , they are supposed to report it to to the title information system, a database used for vehicle history reports. gerri: can i ask that status as a consumer? >> you can.

you can be men access the similar compilation called the national insurance crime bureau represents similar but it is free. gerri: that works for me. some people find off -- out there better off purchasing new car if they are concerned about the overhang? >> that may be a real option. by used car you have to be very careful. if it is do it has certain protections. we have 30 day protection and the assurance it is new. and has not been through anything to severe but it should still get a close look. gerri: a big problem after katrina.

so many cars people tried to disguise as being used. thank you for coming on. if congress and the president send us over the cliff will there be another recession? and answers after the break.

gerri: lawmakers have a short time to strike a deal that economists could warned could trigger another recession. falling off the cliff with

the economic suicide. joining me now is brian westbury from first trust advisor is. really? >> exactly. how long have winnowed this is coming? it is clear if we go off a cliff letting all the tax rates to kick and we will have a recession. >> ien heard 1.3% from gdp and 2 million people could lose their jobs. is it that severe? >> i would not argue with that. it could be a two or three quarter recession. i think we will adjust and do something but if we don't , it will not be pretty and 2013.

gerri: the jpmorgan chase came out to say that the fiscal cliff could carve 1 + 1 + 6000000000000 and also citing capital gains and dividend taxes. will it accelerate? >> if we go off the cliff completely will have 40% dividend tax rate and we could go back up 30% sun capital-gains. this is enough to drive the market down. my best guess is redoubt go over it. gerri: dividend stocks are flavor of the year. what is the impact if the tax rates go up and we cannot pollack one increase?

>> prequalified dividend to 15% will go up at 39.6 + 3.9% -- %. that is tripling. gerri: what is the incentive? >> there is not. the cash flow drops. makes treasuries look more enticing. when you raise taxes this much you influence incentives were investment goes and savings. which is why you end up with a recession if you allow this to happen prick out. gerri: we have not talked about the amt that has no patch. the death tax through the roof.

mistake on the left that is all the want to talk about but we see a broad brush of taxes going up to people who care about their future trying to invest or run a business. >> it is one of the biggest tax hikes in history. it is approaching $400 billion. by the way, it will harm the economy and still will not cut -- cover the deficit. we have to cut spending. i believe the most likely outcome is to kick the can down the road for one year. we cannot compromise they will take the middle road

and we have serious negotiations 2013 for the overarching simpson bowles type package. gerri: never thought i said kicking the can down the road is a good option. but it sounds like it is. thank you for coming. we will be right back.io our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so ma investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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time for cii price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind utomatically searches for the lowest price. and it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your ci card and register your purchase online. have a super spaly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. buy now. save later. gerri: a frequent guest on this program, bill kristol said yesterday, it won't kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires. do you agree? here is with some of your posting on our facebook page. all americans love the bob -- above the poverty line should be taxed at the same rate. unfair to tax in the diary because they are successful. i think everybody should pay the same tax rate as we all pay the same as in sales tax well, ask

the question on gerriwillis.com. 22 percent of you said yes, 77 percent said no. after getting pushed up the door, former ceo is leaving with a ton of money in his pocket. along with former ceo oh, not eligible for severance payments as a result of their departure. instead they're reaching more than six nap million dollars in incentive awards. incentives for what? staying away? this company got bailed out dear reader a man who led the bank when it saw its stock price did cut almost in half. the two men bow get 40 percent of the money right away and the rest will be paid in installments. what a way to go. that is my "2 cents more." coming up tomorrow, rebuilding the american dream. take a look at the bumpy ride